Marvel's "downgrade"

[FallenStar]

Well, Marvel... and you old senile Stan Lee...

You guys have finally done it. After years and years of me being a somewhat loyal fan of your movies, cartoons, and reading about the histories of your characters on wikipedia (I can't afford the actual comics themselves, sadly), you've finally written a story that I can't accept in the slightest.

It was bad enough when you made a black Spider-Man (nothing wrong with black superheroes, it's just that Spider-Man was always a white nerdy kid - I do like John Henry Irons from the DC universe and John Stewart was kickass as the Green Lantern on Justice League)... but now you've gone and killed off Peter Parker...

And worse... you've made Dr. Octopus the NEW Spider-Man.

What in the high flying holy  WERE YOU ASSHOLES THINKING?! This is.... this is...  THIS IS DR. JEKYLL AND MR. HYDE STANDARDS! *starts ranting like James Nintendo Nerd* 

[wunderwutzl]

First of all... the Black Kid has nothing to do with Peter Parker, it would have bugged me too if Peter would have turned into an Afro all of a sudden, but the New Ultimate Spidey is a complete different Character, the "white nerdy kid" did not just vanish. Because of that, I have no problems with Miles. HOWEVERRR... I fully agree with EVERYTHING else you`ve just said! It is not just tasteless and stupid, it does not even make sense(Overwriting Brainwaves?Are you real, Marvel?)

[FallenStar]

A black Spider-Man does go against everything Spider-Man was for nearly 40 years. Again, I'm not against black superheroes... I just don't think making a black Spider-Man was a good thing. It's like how all these movies and TV shows now are trying to reach out to black Americans - like two prominent Will Smith-based movies "The Karate Kid" and "Wild Wild West.". Remaking classic movies with black Americana is, I think quite wrong, considering that Black Americans have their own base culture from which to draw new and exciting movies and media from.

I mean, look at what Tyler Perry and Spike Lee have done over the years. Look at what Eddie Murphy had done... or Chris Rock - hell, Chris Rock's sitcom was fresh too, given that it showed a black kid in a 80s style setting. I thought it was pretty awesome (though I, myself, don't care much for it).

I just don't think completely re-writing Spider-Man to be a black kid is right, I'm sorry. And now, he's like the only Spider-Man that's somewhat original since the "original" Spider-Man is dead and replaced with Dr. Octopus... WHAT... THE... FUCK... 

[wunderwutzl]

You kinda contradict your own Arguments, you´ve said that John Stewart was a good Green Lantern. He was-literally- the replacement for Hal Jordan.Give Miles a chance, it´s not like he will downright RAPE Mary-Jane,like Octavius already tried... before the Memories of Peter Parker got rewritten...overwritten...whatever that nonsense was that "made" Otto Spider-Man.

[FallenStar]

As I understand it, there are multiple Green Lanterns from Earth who all serve at the same time. John Stewart and Kyle Raynor for example. Even though John may have been a replacement for Hal Jordan, you also have to take in the fact that Hal became quite the notorious villain and even became a different superhero afterward in The Spectre.

This did not happen with Peter Parker. He was simply killed off. And now, the only two Spider-Man characters we have left (if Ben Reilly isn't dead or not still posing as the Scarlet Spider), are a black kid so unlike the original concept and a mind-fucked Doc Ock. To me, that is so against normal logic and rationality as to be akin to something like what LJN did in their games that made them quite the failures overall.

.

[Tru]

Is it really as bad as giving Superman a popped collar? (The New 52 Superman.)

[FallenStar]

Can't say; I've never seen a "popped collar". xD

I mean, I know they killed off Captain America and Superman (and even Batman), but the original Kal-El and Bruce Wayne did come back shortly afterward and they were never really replaced with their primary villain like Lex Luthor or The Joker as heroes. That... was BS to the highest calibur, IMO.

[Tru]

Bam: http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/13/132383/2653109-can.png

[FallenStar]

Bam: http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/13/132383/2653109-can.png

Looks almost metallic, his costume does. IDK... I mean, costume changes always occur. Like when Batman went from having a yellow oval on his chest with the Bat symbol on it to just a plain black/gray background or when he went from gray to all black like with Nolan's works.

I think that's sort of okay as long as it's not too different. But I mean... Peter Parker, man... YOU KILLED THE AVERAGE EVERYDAY MAN AND REPLACED HIM WITH DOCTOR OCTOPUS! WHAT... THE HIGH FLYING HOLY  F-!

[Tru]

How about the fact that he's now 10 years younger and a professional blogger? And his armor is invincible! Which is important, I guess, when you're already invincible without it. *fume, stomp, cross arms*

[FallenStar]

Yeah... I can see where that'd be quite annoying.  It was quite a shock for me, after watching the Superman movies with Chris Reeve, to find that Superman was vulnerable to anything other than kryptonite... Magic, lack of sunlight (what is he, Nuclear Man from Superman IV now?!) and all sorts of weird shit...  what the hell, man...

Superman sure as hell never needed armor before so why now?

And I hate... I hate... I HATE... when classic superheroes are *upgraded* just to modernize them... like with that Black Spiderman running around. I'm sorry, man... Peter Parker is a white nerd, not a hip black kid. You should try Rocket Racer...  At least John Stewart made some sort of sense, what with the loss of Hal Jordan and all... but here... they introduced this black Spiderman BEFORE they got rid of Peter Parker *and* THEN turned Doc Ock into Spiderman...

*insert Jackie Chan meme image here*

[Tru]

Well, he gets his powers from the sun, so it makes sense that without it he'd be vulnerable. I didn't begrudge them the additional weaknesses since it was a bit hokey for everyone and their grandma to suddenly find Kryptonite (a substance that is supposed to be rare!) whenever they wanted to harm Superman.

I guess I'm just not that attached to Peter Parker. Maybe it helps that I liked some superhero replacements better than the originals... like Kyle Rayner over Hal Jordan, or Wally West over Barry Allen... And they got rid of Wally West in the most recent changes, too!

[FallenStar]

Maybe, but like I said, it's almost a ripoff of Nuclear man from the movie; I mean before, it wasn't ever shown that he'd lose power if he didn't absorb the radiation from a yellow sun - they did say that Kryptonians do gain power when they approach a yellow sun - General Zod says that much in Superman II, but to completely lose his powers if he doesn't get sunlight? WTF.

They got rid of Wally West too, huh? That sucks. He was one of the funniest characters on Justice League... The wiki suggests that he was added in last minute as a replacement for Plastic Man who they couldn't get the rights for or something, but even so, they really had a good thing going there with him.

I read the wiki on Hal Jordan's turn to evil and I really liked the concept... so that's probably why I'm not so up in arms with John Stewart as opposed to that black Spiderman... maybe if they'd had Peter Parker turn evil and then become like a Spider-God or something, I wouldn't be so incensed, but...

They really should have utilized the Spider-Carnage character more; that was totally awesome in Spiderman TAS.

[wunderwutzl]

John Stewart was the replacement for Hal before the whole  Parallax-Stuff happened; Hal just resigned because his private Life suffered under the pressure of being a Green Lantern, the Green Lantern that followed after the Slaughter of the Guardians was Kyle Rayner. And I really don`t like how you always complain about Miles colour- he is also an "Everyday Guy". Do you hate Kyle Rayner? He is also totally different from Hal Jordan.

[FallenStar]

My actual knowledge of the comics is rather poor, I'll admit, not having read a comic book in my entire life but, my complaint about Miles is that his entire reason for being is because Marvel is trying to reach out to the "urban" black community in much the same way as we now have black sitcoms nowadays that almost always follow a similar story.

It's starting to get really freaking annoying to update something only to appeal to one group of people and worse, to dispose of the original in such a shitty manner, it's unacceptable and aggravating to the Nth degree.

John Stewart at the very least had a strong military background, being in the Marines and whatnot and is more relatable to more than just one group of people; moreover, Hal Jordan wasn't just killed off to make room for him nor had, like, Sinestro suddenly become a Green Lantern because he had Hal Jordan's memories or some dipshit like that.

Hell, even the death of Superman wasn't nearly as bad as what they did to Spider-man.

I don't really know much about Kyle... he, I guess, was either very restricted or wasn't chosen to be the Green Lantern they showed in Justice League (my primary source), so I can't say if I like him more than John Stewart or not... Given John's gray hair in the series, it might actually make more sense for Kyle to come in to assist - younger blood - THAT I can actually see... but to just throw away a classic character and make two characters become that superhero - Doc Ock, in particular... is just repulsive and brain-dead-worthy.