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Machiavelli's "The Prince", and other amazing books

Started by Ranpalan, January 04, 2010, 11:46:03 PM

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Ranpalan

We've not had a book topic as long as I remember (the one in FD not counting), and Machiavelli had the rare effect of forcing me to create one. Thus, unless someone suddenly feels postocidal, you will have to endure my quoting and praising of this book for at least another paragraph.

I'm still not quite sure what I like more - the logic or the simplicity of the book. Perhaps this is only because I read it right after trying to get through Nietzsche's "Ecce Homo", but the language feels to be easy enough for kids. Same with the ideas explained - after seeing them, all seem absolutely obvious and self-explanatory, the examples simply proving them applicable. Those examples are an interesting matter, too, giving but few details, yet suggesting beautiful images of tactics and strategy.

The often-quoted bits, such as "The Prince ought to have no other aim or thought, nor select anything else for his study, than war and its rules and discipline;", which almost give Machiavelli a bad name show up in a completely different light when put in context. I also quite wish I had known this bit while trying to get a guild together in WoW:
Quote from: MachiavelliA Prince, therefore, ought always to take counsel, but at such times and reasons only as he himself pleases, and not when it pleases others; nay, he should discourage every one from obtruding advice on matters on which it is not sought. But he should be free in asking advice, and afterwards as regards the matters on which he has asked it, a patient hearer of the truth, and even displeased should he perceive that any one, from whatever motive, keeps it back.

Anyone else read the book and have any thoughts? Or any thoughts on other books?
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masterhypnotic99

Hey, thanks for replying to my intro. 7 hours is quite a difference. I read the prince awhile back, i'm a philosophy major at school so i have found myself exposed to some gems now and again. I actually wanted to recommend a book to you called I and Thou by Martin Buber. He is  sort of Machiavelli's antithesis. The book is not that thick, and it's written in the form of short sayings and paragraphs and although written from a christian existentialist perspective it is in no way preachy, but more thought-provoking along the lines of community as the answer rather than division, as in the prince. i enjoyed comparing the two, but that's just me. . What really got me was Buber's description of the evil men of society as being thought of as more of a responsibility to the good, not as antagonists, but as mirrors that challenge us, if that makes any sense, haha. But all that stuff is really easy to say when you're not in the trenches like Machiavelli. You have to appreciate the experiencial viewpoint.

Ranpalan

I'll certainly add that to my list. I'm a little flooded with books at the moment, so can't promise I'll read it all that soon, but will get there at some point :)
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redeker

I haven't actually red Machiavelli's "The Prince", though I did read his background. From a practical point of view, I agree with him, as he essentially started realpolitik. I also liked that he started to secularize authority, also starting the drive away from divine absolutism. 
All the crazy monkeys
are playing a game that will never end,
caught up in a never-ending "Banana Roulette."