Hey everyone!
Recently, I have discovered a neat little program for writing text adventures / interactive fiction, called Inform 7. It is pretty easy to use, and so, since I am neither programmer nor artist, yet consider myself a writer of acceptable skill, I figured that this might be an opportunity to give the FD community something worthwhile.
Now, I know that there are many people out there far more talented than I am, so instead of trying to make this myself and only after my own preferences, I am asking YOU (yes, you!) for your help.
The way I imagine it, everyone can contribute whatever they like. I will try to keep things organized and put everything together in the end. If you are interested: we could use people for the following functions, although no one will be limited to do "just that one thing".
- Planning
+ High level concept
+ Plot planning
+ Character design
+ Desperation / wetting system concept
- Writing
+ Wetting scenes and desperation
+ Characterization and character descriptions
+ Room and world descriptions
+ Objects, items, etc.
+ Plot and events
- Production
+ Mathematical scripts (i.e. bladder status)
+ Mapping
+ Assembly and organization (a.k.a. lost-and-found codelines department)
- Testing
+ TESTING!
And probably some other things I forgot.
So if anyone is interested, even in adding just their five cents, feel free to comment! And if you want to join the team, anyone is welcome. Consider this: the larger the team, the more likely this is to happen. And don't we all love a good FD game? ;)
Faust can definitely be a Tester in the very least.
=D
Faust shall do whatever he can to help out in this sort of project, even if it's just writing and commenting.
Okay?
Just a small word of advice: don't plan something big right from the beginning; start with something small and then add new features up. Look at Lolimaho: that guy's concept was so big that he's lost his interest midway (which is a shame, because the he implimented the things he finished really good too). That being said, I wish you good luck with your project. When I get my hands free (read: when I finish with Wetters Taiken), I'll see what Inform 7 can do and probably join this to do the coding part.
Quote from: Lisk on August 31, 2010, 07:59:00 AM
Just a small word of advice: don't plan something big right from the beginning; start with something small and then add new features up. Look at Lolimaho: that guy's concept was so big that he's lost his interest midway (which is a shame, because the he implimented the things he finished really good too). That being said, I wish you good luck with your project. When I get my hands free (read: when I finish with Wetters Taiken), I'll see what Inform 7 can do and probably join this to do the coding part.
That's also how I will approach it. The good thing about this genre of games is that it is pretty flexible in terms of how you can expand it. Inform seems to be a somewhat... readable, yet powerful language for the purpose it was made for. Writing IF fortunately does not require you to have a full blown concept right from the start, so as soon as the bare necessities are set up, we can work outward from there.
My main concern right now, however, is setting up these bare necessities. I am currently experimenting with a few ways to represent our beloved core theme in the engine. Anyway, thanks for your interest so far - any help is appreciated!
Before you get too far along, you might also want to investigate the TADS/TADS3 engine.
It is another fairly easy program used to write IF (interactive fiction) and most folks I know prefer to use it over Inform for a multitude of reasons. I haven't personally written any IF in either format, so I can't testify to their respective strengths, but I know that when it comes to PLAYING IF games, I find that TADS is a cleaner, smoother engine, as well.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aifarchive/ is a Yahoo group that I've been part of for many years now. You may want to check it out, as there are many writers there who use a variety of platforms for interactive fiction. As an aside, AIF is a specific sub-genre consisting of adult oriented IF. I'm not aware of any games in the field that cater to this specific fetish at the moment, but you should check out the group regardless, as they're usually pretty open to helping new writers explore the genre, regardless of the particular fetishes involved.
Good luck!
Thanks for the link, I will definitely check it out.
I have experimented with TADS before, but I somehow like Inform's approach to coding. But that might be because, while I certainly manage to bring up the right patterns of thinking for programming a game, I could never get myself to really learn a programming language.
Ah, games. The best substitute for having something in reality. In this case, we are trying to substitute real girls willing to get into desperate situations with us...
That said, I hope this project someday culminates in an advanced AI controlled android designed for desperation play. I'll be watching eBay for this product, so don't let me down.
In seriousness, I think it's a fine idea. Collaboration, that is. The best way to keep something alive is to create as much momentum as possible, and the more people who are contributing, the more momentum. I think, anyway.
I don't know anything about the engine, but I am fairly experienced in programming. I'm also a pretty good writer, or so I've led myself to believe. If you need help in either area, you have my keyboard.
Quote from: Dynamic on August 31, 2010, 11:21:29 AM
Ah, games. The best substitute for having something in reality.
Oh, my favorite topic!
Quote from: Dynamic on August 31, 2010, 11:21:29 AM
In seriousness, I think it's a fine idea. Collaboration, that is. The best way to keep something alive is to create as much momentum as possible, and the more people who are contributing, the more momentum.
In seriousness, you are absolutely right. Open-sourced projects, where many people can offer contributions independently, have the most potential to live. Speaking of examples again, look at VH or RyonaRPG - they're getting some patches and/or updates every few days exactly because one can add some little things here and there without contradicting the changes made by others.
I myself will be willing to help, despite the fact i know nothing of coding.
So, Qasim (or anyone else), shall we start discussing... something? This won't go anywhere if we don't get the ball rolling (and thus building momentum... the physics analogy knows no bounds!).
I propose we start with concept. That is, what this is, and what it is not. From what was said, this is going to be a 'text adventure/interactive fiction,' using a third party engine. I have yet to check the engine out, but I'm not too concerned about its capabilities so long as it allows decisions. What's a game without decisions, right?
I personally like the model a lot of interactive games have taken, with the basic YES/NO/Play dumb decision approach. The character can ask the player something, and the player can respond like that. I have also toyed with the idea of a 'status check' function that takes the form of the player asking the character a question, and having the character reply. This is a fair amount more coding/writing, but I feel it would be worth it. It would also be fun to experiment with personality types. For instance, the player can ask for a status check, which I suppose could be something to the effect of asking the girl is she has to use the restroom. The girl, depending on her personality type, might say that she doesn't, even if she does. Am I the only one who sees potential in this idea?
Okay, I pushed, but the ball won't roll unless someone else replies. Or pushes. Or... um... you get the idea.
Quote from: Dynamic on September 02, 2010, 12:00:18 AM
So, Qasim (or anyone else), shall we start discussing... something? This won't go anywhere if we don't get the ball rolling (and thus building momentum... the physics analogy knows no bounds!).
I propose we start with concept. That is, what this is, and what it is not. From what was said, this is going to be a 'text adventure/interactive fiction,' using a third party engine. I have yet to check the engine out, but I'm not too concerned about its capabilities so long as it allows decisions. What's a game without decisions, right?
I personally like the model a lot of interactive games have taken, with the basic YES/NO/Play dumb decision approach. The character can ask the player something, and the player can respond like that. I have also toyed with the idea of a 'status check' function that takes the form of the player asking the character a question, and having the character reply. This is a fair amount more coding/writing, but I feel it would be worth it. It would also be fun to experiment with personality types. For instance, the player can ask for a status check, which I suppose could be something to the effect of asking the girl is she has to use the restroom. The girl, depending on her personality type, might say that she doesn't, even if she does. Am I the only one who sees potential in this idea?
Okay, I pushed, but the ball won't roll unless someone else replies. Or pushes. Or... um... you get the idea.
Sadly I won't be in a position to really help until my indecisive college instructor decides on what to do with our class' final project. One problem you will run into is how to deal with the wetting situations(or the "she made it just in time" situations).1) Will you have a generic set of descriptions like I did in the car trip game? 2)Or will you have custom made ones. For example:
Let's say the girl, Faust(!!) wet's her self. If you used the first method once her "bladder" variable hits a certain point the game engine will pick a random number and pick it's corresponding "string" a line of text and display it. To demonstrate:
Faust lets out a squeal! Gameeng: I picked random number....3!
1: Faust pants seem to his as she wets!
2: Faust pants darken with pee!
3: Faust makes a puddle around her feet!
This would Display, Faust lets out a squeal! Faust makes a puddle around her feet!
Pros: Allows you to potentially use many girls in a wetting at once (Just need to print the stings more than once), Code can be used in many situations with small amounts of tweaking
Cons: Has potential to become monotonous(If Faust wets at the beach:Faust pants darken with pee! Faust wets in front of others:Faust pants darken with pee! Faust....ect , LOTS of variable upkeep(What happens if the girls name is not Faust?, What happens if Faust is wearing a skirt? What happens if Faust is in a place where she would not leave a puddle? ect.) Hard limits, occasionally it's difficult to place pre-written strings on screen in such way that, it doesn't spill off screen, the engine doesn't just chop off text, the string makes sense in it's context: Faust is wearing a skirt! Faust pants darken with pee!
Then there's the custom made option this is what you get in your standard "Ero-game" Like Sagara Family or Bible Black. Each wetting scene would have completely unique text that is *NEVER randomized.
Pros: Each scene has potential to be utter poetry as there are no hard limit's to worry about
Cons: **Slow. Slow. Slow. Each paragraph has to be modded by the code entry person/team to fit on screen,If the writers are ready to write and the coders aren't ready to code the text may never even be entered!
* Then there's the hybrid option as there's really no reason why would can't merge the two techniques. The final call is yours Qasim.
** An argument could be made that you would run into the same problem with the first method. Which is true...
I'll stop here as it's getting late hopefully someone will reply with more input(or find ways to improve or correct mine!).
Faust knows nothing about Code, but Faust can help with typing up a transcript if necessary.
....
Though Faust wonders why Faust was chosen as the wetting example.....
...
^^
Faust would love to help in any way possible.
I encountered a similar situation when working on my own project. Basically, for each variable you add, the amount of descriptions that must be written increases exponentially. For a purely text-based game it's quite the problem, but it basically just comes down to how much work you wanna put into it. Last time I touched the project, I was fiddling with different ways to display the text. I was using OpenGL via GLUT, and text-output is actually pretty limited. I couldn't even find a way to output numbers to the screen. That just goes to show that OpenGL is a 3D API, and not a 2D...
Since I'm a fairly inexperienced coder, that was a bit too much for me to handle. I made a very simple Win32 console application that just basically had a timer running in the background, and every 2 or so seconds it would increment the girl's 'bladder level' by a certain number (determined by other variables). It was a simple, and quite boring little project, but for something I made it about 2 hours it was kind of cool. I need to find a happy medium. Somewhere between console apps and stand-alone OpenGL apps. I would use Basic, but the overhead for the user is a bit too much for my liking. I would really like something that anyone on any machine could just double-click and play without having to worry about dependencies, frameworks, etc etc.
Maybe a web-based app in Javascript, or even flash, is the way to go.
Ideas?
Quote from: Faust on September 11, 2010, 09:08:05 PM
Though Faust wonders why Faust was chosen as the wetting example.....
A moe fourm member wetting herself? Whats more moe than wetting?! Now go ahead and change and.....SNAKE SNAKE!
Quote from: Dynamic on September 12, 2010, 01:12:12 AM
Since I'm a fairly inexperienced coder, that was a bit too much for me to handle. I made a very simple Win32 console application that just basically had a timer running in the background, and every 2 or so seconds it would increment the girl's 'bladder level' by a certain number (determined by other variables). It was a simple, and quite boring little project, but for something I made it about 2 hours it was kind of cool. I need to find a happy medium. Somewhere between console apps and stand-alone OpenGL apps. I would use Basic, but the overhead for the user is a bit too much for my liking. I would really like something that anyone on any machine could just double-click and play without having to worry about dependencies, frameworks, etc etc.
Maybe a web-based app in Javascript, or even flash, is the way to go.
Ideas?
As far as programming goes as long as the syntax doesn't stray too far from the norm, or I don't have to wade through the developers code(I'm looken at you RPGmaker), I'm pretty good. Hopefully we won't be programming this in COBOL or RPG400! however I doubt my java abilities. What about Visual Basic?
Faust is Moe?
Faust is Moe!!!
^^
Faust will do whatever Faust can to make this project work.
...
So long as someone is willing to help Faust understand it. ^^;
*changes*
Alright, I have laid some groundwork, mainly experimenting with the general handling of bladder fullness and so forth. Although I would really love to put in as many variables as possible (i.e. determination to hold it, current situation and so forth), it all does increase the complexity dramatically. On the other hand, however, we are not working on a deadline here, so that should not be the main concern.
Then there is the question about the protagonist - should the player character be male or female, and should (s)he be affected by the 'rules'? Maybe that could be quite interesting for the player to effectively be a guide to the main character. What do you think?
Quote from: none on September 12, 2010, 08:04:09 AMHopefully we won't be programming this in COBOL or RPG400!
I was thinking FORTRAN 77
I kind of already said why I don't like Visual Basic, but I guess I'm not opposed to it either. But I just remembered that in this thread we are already using some engine already, so I suppose it's moot. For now...
As for the player character, I'm a fan of gender neutrality. That way we don't alienate anyone. The player name can be entered, such as in none's game, but I think it's best to keep it as neutral as possible. The whole fun of a game like this is projecting yourself (or how you fancy yourself) into the role of the player, right? Or am I way off base
as usual?
as easy as a simple radomizer might be, it would ceartinly get old fast unless you added hundreds of different lines to avoid getting the same things twice, and "making a puddle on the floor" wouldn't exactly work if on the beach as said or in a pool. You'd either need to make some really,really generic lines that could litterally fit anywhere, or have to code in specific sets of generic lines anyway, at which point you might as well write unique ones.
Unless we're feeling particularly adventerous and wanna try writing several small snippets that the engine can parse together into a somewhat meaningful phrase.
Give me a few hours to contemplate on this. I just got home from skool and the wheels in my head aren't turning so good.
Ok I downloaded Inform 7 and I'll be blunt....I'm not loving it. If you want to use the unique descriptions then this is PREFECT! you won't even need programmers since the language is so natural.. And there lies the problem just to create a variable and attach a value to it I have to type:
The girl's bladder is a kind of value that varies. The girl's bladder is 500
That's great if the "girl's bladder " is one of two or three variables that we're gonna use here but typing in all of that in just to randomize a variable seems...cumbersome plus in order to set the value to something constant(Like how after the girl wets herself I would have to type)
now girl's bladder is 25;
Am I going to have to type that in every time? If so you are just asking for human error bugs.
Quote from: Qasim on September 12, 2010, 08:08:43 PM
Alright, I have laid some groundwork, mainly experimenting with the general handling of bladder fullness and so forth. Although I would really love to put in as many variables as possible (i.e. determination to hold it, current situation and so forth), it all does increase the complexity dramatically. On the other hand, however, we are not working on a deadline here, so that should not be the main concern.
Regardless of my love or hate of the engine could you post your code please? :clap: Don't worry about how readable or how finished it is it would greatly help me in my understanding of Inform, and what you want to do with the game.
Quote from: Qasim on September 12, 2010, 08:08:43 PM
Then there is the question about the protagonist - should the player character be male or female, and should (s)he be affected by the 'rules'? Maybe that could be quite interesting for the player to effectively be a guide to the main character. What do you think?
Like in Poowrite's KWEST? That could work very well if the writings good!
PS. KWEST was a game written in(I think?) Basic were you took control of a apprentice magician girl who's first mission was to slay an evil Wizard? Demon? REALLY REALLY EVIL GUY! that weakens people who tried to attack his's castle by making them have to go to the bathroom badly. You can guess what happens next. I loved it.