Music

[FallenStar]

Personal preference is the bottom line in any debate such of this.

Obviously, not everybody will like someone's music; conversely, however, there are people who will *love* that same someone's music.


However, saying that Uematsu is overrated is extremely opinionated as there is no *such* proof that his music is overrated;  FFVII, however, is *overrated* simply because of the hype surrounding it. You might notice that in all the commercials and in all the ads for Final Fantasy, they *hardly* mention the music.  Therefore, Nobuo = underrated (if anything), lol

[Ameboes]

Put this into context, however: how many typical RPG players actually give a damn about the composer or the music for its musical qualities, and not just as background music? Most would care about graphics, gameplay, storyline, voice acting, translation; few would notice the music unless it was absolutely awful or completely awesome. Even so, I doubt most would bother looking up the composer, buying/obtaining hte OST or looking into the composer's other works.

Uematsu may not be a ubiquitous name like FF is among gamers; however, it is among anyone who has moderately pursued an interest in video game music. In general, I find that the reaction to his music as music are greatly positive (notable exception is in (amateur) composer niches, both classical/orchestral as incidental [video game, film score, etc.] composers); furthermore, there's a reason that the first name I came across in video game music was Uematsu's (and no, it wasn't because I played FF games; I've barely played any of them, in fact). In my listening, I have found that his music is not as great as it is generally praised for being; thus, relative to my ear, his music is overrated.

[FallenStar]

That statement has a bit of waffling there (sorry, can't think of the right term). On the one hand, you say that: 

In general, I find that the reaction to his music as music are greatly positive

Then you say:

his music is overrated.

If people like his music, if "in general", the majority like it, then it's not overrated.

And again, like you said, how many typical RPG players actually give a damn about the composer or the music for its musical qualities, 

This only further proves that Uematsu isn't overrated, because outside the RPG "clique", no one is going to look him up or even care about him. And even those that *do* that like RPGs, don't like Uematsu if they are *not* Final Fantasy fans at all.

[Ameboes]

overrate: v. to rate or appraise too highly; overestimate —Synonyms overpraise, overesteem, magnify. (Dictionary.com Unabridged)

I believe that those with an interest in video game music generally overestimate Uematsu's music—thus that people generally overrate his music. Those who don't have an interest in VGM as music, of course, cannot be considered in the general popular opinion of Uematsu, just like you can't say that FFVII isn't praised too highly because most people don't play video games, or at least involved games like RPGs, and thus have no opinion on it.


As for that word, maybe you were thinking of "contradictory"?

[MinaMurray]

This is exactly the idea I've been trying to convey.  Also I lolled at waffling.

[FallenStar]

overrate: v. to rate or appraise too highly; overestimate —Synonyms overpraise, overesteem, magnify. (Dictionary.com Unabridged)

I believe that those with an interest in video game music generally overestimate Uematsu's music—thus that people generally overrate his music. Those who don't have an interest in VGM as music, of course, cannot be considered in the general popular opinion of Uematsu, just like you can't say that FFVII isn't praised too highly because most people don't play video games, or at least involved games like RPGs, and thus have no opinion on it.


As for that word, maybe you were thinking of "contradictory"?

Oh, gee, let's see... out of all the people that I know that rate VGM music, the game names (representing their soundtracks) that I hear most often are:

Castlevania (Symphony of Night)
Legend of Zelda
Metroid
Mega Man.


Face it... with the anti-Final Fantasy movement growing, Uematsu's music has *not* been overrated during his entire term. Further, if his music *was* overrated, then "The Black Mages" wouldn't be one of the top selling VGM soundtracks out there. There would be a feedback loop of sorts wherein the Anti-Uematsu crowd would go out and buy *other* soundtracks instead.

Not only that, but Uematsu has shone incredible range in songs, on the order that people like Beethoven never could do (simply because he didn't know about it).

Now, let's drop all this overrated crap, mmkay? *Nothing* is overrated so much as its overhyped and VGM music *does not* fit into over-hyped. As you yourself said, "RPG gamers don't care so much about the music as they do about the other parts of the game"  =P

Oh, and also, if people *didn't* buy the OSTs to the games, why do they still make them, hmm? Those OSTs are one of Square's biggest sellers outside of the games themselves. Doesn't seem like overrated to me.

[MinaMurray]

Star, did you just really compare Uematsu to Beethoven?  I mean, really.  He's a very good artist, but Beethoven was a GENIUS.

[FallenStar]

Star, did you just really compare Uematsu to Beethoven?  I mean, really.  He's a very good artist, but Beethoven was a GENIUS.

Beethoven was limited to one style of music because he didn't have access to all the other different styles out there.  Yes, he was a genius, but so is Uematsu.  Uematsu has compose meaningful songs that only add to each and every scene that the artists drew and illustrate. 

Naturally, Uematsu might *not* be everyone's cup of tea, but that doesn't mean he's not *as much* a genius as Beethoven.

[MinaMurray]

Yes, but as you suggested, the songs are better when considered in the context of the Final Fantasy scenes.  Additionally, you cannot hold the fact that Beethoven had no access to various styles of music against him.

Really, though.  I LIKE Uematsu, and I don't even put him in the same league as Wolfgang.

When you start to talk about genius, you have to put aside personal feelings about music and be objective.

[FallenStar]

I am being objective;

I compare both Beethoven's music with that of Uematsu's. 

I still say that Uematsu is *as* much of a genius as Beethoven because the emotional impact of Uematsu's music reaches me just as much Beethoven's.

and might I also add that I've heard Uematsu's music played by a orchestra, so clearly, I'm not the only one who thinks he's just as good.

[MinaMurray]

But you must understand, part of the emotional impact reaches you because you associate it, if only subconsciously, with the events of Final Fantasy.

Also, I must reiterate, genius isn't a matter of opinion.

[FallenStar]

No, I don't feel the emotional impact because I've played the game. I mean, just listening to "Cry in Sorrow" really does make me cry whether I think of Anna's death or not. The music is intensely beautiful and well-written for the modern time.

Also, Uematsu *is* a genius on the order of Beethoven. He has the ability to make people *feel* the songs whether you see the scene or not.

Beethoven did the same, I agree, but whereas Beethoven was constrained by the classical period in which he was born, Uematsu is capable of transcender more than just one brand of music, whether it be J-pop or even the classical style of Beethoven himself.  =P

[MinaMurray]

I would argue that you're disregarding the SUBconscious aspects of your mental process, but that's for another day.

Really, I'm just going to close my argument with this:
Will people remember and continue to listen to Nobuo centuries from now?  Genius stands the test of time.

[FallenStar]

There's no way to know *right* now if Nobuo Uematsu's work will last as long as Beethoven's, but consider this:

Nobuo's best works started in 1991 (with Final Fantasy IV); In just a couple of months time, the re-release of said game will be pushed, for the 20th anniversary of Final Fantasy. His music has stood the test of time for 17 years, so far.

With Final Fantasy still going, it's quite possible that his music will survive and thrive as long as Beethoven's has. Not only that, but, again, there are literally hundreds of tracks on many tens of CDs sold for his music, he has his own band that is wildly popular here and in Japan, and his music has been played by the greatest orchestras of all time. 

Seems pretty Beethoven-ish to me.  =P

[MinaMurray]

However, throughout those 17 years, he has not received mainstream success.

Yes, he has lots of fans.  However, most mainstream music fans don't know who he is.

Beethoven achieved massive success throughout his living career.

Of course, as you've said, and quite rightfully so, we cannot know.