I didn't see anything in the rules about controversial topics such as religion and politics being disallowed here, but if I somehow managed to overlook such a rule, please promptly delete this topic. However, I have faith in all of you that you'll keep it civil (not sure how a survey could turn into a flamefest anyway, but whatever).
Since I'm very interested in religion, and didn't see a topic like this here, I thought I'd start one up.
As the topic title asks, what are your religious beliefs?
Myself, I have no religious beliefs. I'm a weak atheist, who adheres strongly to moralism. The term "moralist" is a very broad and often ambiguous term, however, so allow me to clarify what I mean when I label myself as a "moralist". Basically, I believe that all humans are instilled with an intrinsic moral code, with permanent and unchangeable morals, such as do not kill, do not harm others, etc. (obviously though, there are exceptions to this rule, such as if, hypothetically, a serial killer were to break into your home and start bludgeoning and subsequently raping your wife) These morals cannot be eliminated, only ignored, in cases such as the one I describe above with the serial killer.
You could say I prefer to stick to morals and call it a day too.
I can't really call myself an atheist though, because I do believe in God, to put it another way, and pardon the double negative, I can't NOT believe in a higher power, some of the shit that has happened in my life just force me to believe in God, to sum things up.
That said, I don't roll with a gang... I mean religion, actually I think they're synonyms, you get what I'm saying.
I'd describe myself as believing in Buddhism, but not particularly practicing it. I generally find that religion is a hindrance to society, or as Karl Marx put it "an opiate of the masses".
I especially disagree with any of the specific religions that originate from Jerusalem. I believe all organized religion loses its message to a majority of the population and that a strong minority uses religion to silently oppress society into doing its bidding. That's my controversial view.
Atheist, Buddhist, or just Secularist those are the labels I choose.
Such a rule used to be in place, but it seems it has since been removed. EDIT: It is still listen in the introduction section rules.
I quite enjoy making up as many theories and models as I possibly can, which has rather lead me to being sceptical, at best, to whatever others try to teach me. If a deity was proven to exist, I would likely settle for maltheism (i.e. hating the gods), but the likeliness seems low. I generally dislike religions originating from the Bible, but purely due to the silliness of the book, and I have nothing against (most) of it's followers.
Your idea of morals (which I'd call instincts) is quite close to what I have, except that I'd add "if everything went well" to it. Any of these could morals/instincts could be lost or missed due to significant events (brain damage, genetic defect, traumatic experience, etc.).
Quote from: D_guy10 on January 06, 2010, 09:12:18 PM
You could say I prefer to stick to morals and call it a day too.
Not really, because then subjective morality comes into the picture, of which I am in strong opposition.
What do you mean 'subjective'?
Quote from: D_guy10 on January 07, 2010, 12:46:49 PM
What do you mean 'subjective'?
Relative to the person. In other words, what one considers immoral, another could well consider moral. Morality has only as much value as you give it.
Like I said, I strongly oppose subjective morality, as I feel it to be rather detestable
Only reason im replying to this thread is coz, I come back from the pub and notified people in a chatroom of my intoxicated status. Thats important because they thought I was disadvantaged and that my arguments would fail when they challeneged my faith. I just spent the last 3/4 hours making EPIC WIN! :gunsmilie:
Maybe i'll get a lot of haters.
You could say, I'm a weak evangelical christ-fag, who adheres strongly to my own beliefs.
Roughly this means:
I believe in a 7 day creation.
I believe the Bible is the written word of God, through various men from various places, compiled.
I believe in original sin, that the first man sinned once for all mankind to suffer, and that Jesus (perfect God in man) was the antidote to that.
I believe Jesus died and came back to life three days later, and in doing so, paid the price for everyones sin past present and future. Because of this, if anyone believes it with an honest heart and repents of their sin, when they are judged before God in heaven when they die, God will look at Jesus' perfect life account instead of their personal one, and they will be accepted into an eternal life in heaven.
I believe that that is all that is required to gain eternal life in heaven, after death.
I believe by Gods grace we are saved through faith, not of our own works.
I believe there is NOTHING you can do to save yourself.
(no catholic rosary, no muslim prayers, no jewish tithes or money offerings, nothing.)
I believe in not only a powerful all-sustaining creator God, I believe in a personal God that is also a friend that sticks closer than any brother.
I believe I should try to help reach everyone everywhere as much as I can to spread the word.
I believe there are more people who arnt "christians" who think they know everything (or a lot) about "chrisitanity", than there are droplets of water in the sea.
Anyone who wants to ask me questions are very welcome, please do so in a personal message or something.
[EDIT:]
Up until now my karma has never changed, after this post someone decided to give me a bad mark, quite surprising I must say. ::)
I'm an apathetic agnostic. (Who CARES if there's a divine force, It never actively does anything for us if it does exist)
I also follow the philosophy of the Tao.
I'm an atheist. I don't believe in God or any gods/goddesses. I'm more of a science guy.
I removed the non-controversial topic rule some time ago, B.u.S., when TaintedLove, Doom_Guard, and... er... Chang... all raised rather valid points for allowing such discussion.
Therefore, I am not going to hunt... er... wabbits. After all, it's duck season and that damn dog o'mine is gonna laugh at me if I don't hit the damn duck. :lol:
Quote from: hashish on January 07, 2010, 07:00:59 PM
I believe in a 7 day creation.
I will honor my word and keep this thread respectful, so please don't take this to mean that I'm trying to be condescending or act intellectually superior, because such is not the case. You'll just have to trust me on that.
Anyway, how can you adhere to a literal seven day creation, as described in Genesis, when there is vast amounts of scientific data in support of evolution, of which a mere seven days does not allow for?
I get your point now Oracle. What I don't get is how we can all, or simpler still, just the both of us (who adhere to a moral code) make sure it's the same exact code, that is to say that we see eye to eye on everything.
I mean, just like you said in your first post if someone is hurting a loved one of mine, yes, I'll take swift action to stop them, outside of that I also believe it's wrong to personally take someone else's life or harm them just because. So there we go, we're on the same page on that, but I don't know what your views on same sex marriage are, or abortion for that matter, not that I'm asking 'cause we'd need separate threads to go over most of the controversial aspects of life. Should you want to exchange views though, just send me a private message. It's only by learning how other people see the world that I get to keep an open mind.
Back to my point, I can understand your hatred towards subjective morality. It's stupid and the ramifications of it is a complete disaster to fathom, however the intrinsic moral code you speak of isn't written anywhere, not that I know of anyway, so although we consider ourselves moralists, aren't we bound to see each other as subjective moralists from where we're standing?
If humans have an intrinsic moral code common to all of us it is to Survive, multiply and protect that which is important to you, in that order. I don't think it can be something as structured as "thou shalt not kill" or "strive to be a good person" if it's going to be a constant throughout humanity.
You say there are always exceptions for why one would not follow an intrinsic morality, but I would argue that the exceptions are signs that the basic model is wrong.
With the 'survive, multiply, and protect what is important to you' model you have an intrinsic moral code that can be followed by all humans both "good" and "evil" and not require exceptions to the rules.
Quote from: anathema on January 07, 2010, 08:26:02 PM
I'm an apathetic agnostic. (Who CARES if there's a divine force, It never actively does anything for us if it does exist)
I also follow the philosophy of the Tao.
I'm more or less what he said. I could hardly care less if there's a divine god. If there is such an omnipowerful being he's either a sadist asshole or forgot about us, so why bother worrying about it?
QuoteWhat I don't get is how we can all, or simpler still, just the both of us (who adhere to a moral code) make sure it's the same exact code, that is to say that we see eye to eye on everything.
We can't, and clearly we don't. I admit that perhaps my post with regards to moralism was a bit misleading, due to the lack of clarification on my part.
I believe that our "intrinsic moral code" is only apparent in very specific instances, such as:
- Don't kill, unless someone you care about is being threatened.
- Don't steal, unless absolutely necessary, such as in the case of your family starving and you not making enough money to support them.
- Don't inflict harm upon others, either emotionally, physically, or mentally.
This is what I mean when I claim we have an "intrinsic moral code". I will admit though, that, even though
superficially, this seems like a form of objective morality, it falls just short of that, since there are clearly going to be exceptions to the rule, which I even admitted. However, though it is certainly not "objective morality", it is close enough I think, and I feel is an undeniable, intrinsic moral code that we all share. Obviously, people can and do go against these simple morals, but only because they ignore them. Upbringing also plays a part in moral development too, however, so this all a very complicated subject, and I am still not firmly set in my position of moralism.
QuoteYou say there are always exceptions for why one would not follow an intrinsic morality, but I would argue that the exceptions are signs that the basic model is wrong.
You would have a point, had I said that we had an
objective morality. Intrinsic is different from objective.
Though I do like your idea of an intrinsic morality, as well.
I approve of it as well, it's broad, but like you say it can be followed regardless of the tastes a person might have.
Has anybody seen the "Penn and Teller Bullshit" episode where they pick the bible apart? Hilarious stuff.
While we're on the subject I encourage you to take a look at the link in my signature, it sums up how I feel about religion and humanity quite well.
Quote from: Mighty Oracle on January 08, 2010, 05:19:13 PM
Quote from: hashish on January 07, 2010, 07:00:59 PM
I believe in a 7 day creation.
I will honor my word and keep this thread respectful, so please don't take this to mean that I'm trying to be condescending or act intellectually superior, because such is not the case. You'll just have to trust me on that.
Anyway, how can you adhere to a literal seven day creation, as described in Genesis, when there is vast amounts of scientific data in support of evolution, of which a mere seven days does not allow for?
- In all respect:
I could write half a library of the amount of scientific "evidence" there is that the (not yet proven beyond all reasonable doubt: THEORY) of evolution is not what most people think it to be. Difference is I'd have everyone jumping up to argue their case in the thread, which I refuse to work with, if you wanna talk we have personal messages y'know.
Also, when you believe in God you only have to think logcally in the sense that, as a perfect being that exists outside of time and is capable of everything God, a 7 day creation is more than feasible.
I don't talk like my arguments are fact, and also, in todays world truth is subjective. One persons view on something (if they decide so) is undeniable fact, regardless of who might disagree because thats non P.C or something.
All I need is people that would really listen, or more prefferrably with an open mind to a potentially equal or greater argument.
Personal messages plz.
Don't feel like doing this in a PM, ignore it if you want - why'd it take him so long?
This thread makes me miss the old religious and political discussion rule.
While debates are perfectly fine I say this draws attention to our differences, and the real reason we're here is due to our similarities, one similarity, our fetish.
I have my own religious beliefs, but others will disagree with them, so excuse my not posting my exact beliefs in this thread, its just that I like peace and quiet a whole lot.
Quote from: Mighty Oracle on January 08, 2010, 05:19:13 PM
Quote from: hashish on January 07, 2010, 07:00:59 PM
I believe in a 7 day creation.
[...] Anyway, how can you adhere to a literal seven day creation, as described in Genesis, when there is vast amounts of scientific data in support of evolution, of which a mere seven days does not allow for?
Sorry, but I've had this discussion topic come up before, and in Hashish's defense, how do you know how long a day is to a divine entity? By 'day' they could mean 'aeons' in God-time. Just something to think about.
I'm primarily Agnostic, but I borrow certain things from other religions. None of them is 100% right, and they all have a bit of the truth. Now if we could just all piece them
together...
Atheist. God is a human concept designed to comfort us and answer unanswerable questions. Worst of all, people use the excuse that they're acting according to the will of something immaterial to justify inhuman actions. Mulling over the issue any more than that is pointless.
I believe in God I suppose, and I'm technically Christian (I attend church on Christmas Eve with my family every year) but I mostly just believe in being a good person and whatnot.
QuoteBy 'day' they could mean 'aeons' in God-time.
Which is exactly my point. This is actually how the Genesis creation story was meant to be taken during its inception.
QuoteI believe in God I suppose, and I'm technically Christian (I attend church on Christmas Eve with my family every year) but I mostly just believe in being a good person and whatnot.
Going to church does not a Christian make. Just saying, and I'm certainly not trying to judge you, as it is simply not my place to do so.
However, it is a theological fact, as outlined in the Bible, that in order to be a Christian, one must believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and that he died and gave his life for the remission of the sins of humankind, and that he rose from the dead three days later and ascended to heaven to be with the father.
Upon believing that, one must invite Christ into their heart, and let him take control.
Agnostic Deist. There's probably something out there, 'mortal' or not. A lot of religions have parallels, so why couldn't it be different interpritations of the same being?
I'm a Christian, myself.
I used to be Christian, but I didn't really do any Christian things when I believed other than pray nightly. Maybe it was the type of Christianity I grew up with that turned me away from it. It focused heavily on prohibiting sexual acts. Since I lived in the ghetto where it wasn't unusual for a teenager to get pregnant, I was in a stage where I just believed that everyone was going to hell.
Also, all the bad things in life were preached as being the result of Satan. 'If God was all-knowing, then why would he create an angel that would betray him?' I constantly thought. This was the biggest thing that made me lose my faith.
As far as morals go, I just the follow the Golden Rule.
I agree with OP. Religion plays no part in my life whatsoever. Though being stuck in the south, you have to stare at Christians everyday. lol I just don't have much time for religion. And from what I've seen of the Churches, they just look like "Get Rich Quick Schemes" to me. Donate all your money to be right with God. :death: Ha.
Quote from: xXDNAXx on February 08, 2010, 12:04:52 PM
I agree with OP. Religion plays no part in my life whatsoever. Though being stuck in the south, you have to stare at Christians everyday. lol I just don't have much time for religion. And from what I've seen of the Churches, they just look like "Get Rich Quick Schemes" to me. Donate all your money to be right with God. :death: Ha.
I've never been to the south of america but I've heard from so many internet people that think ALL churches and organised "christian" establishments are like this ("Get Rich Quick Schemes"). It's the main reason why im so vocal about what I do and don't believe in.
There are like ZERO and I mean ZERO churches that have that ("Get Rich Quick Schemes") attitude in London and the south east of England that i've explored. I don't doubt that theres one or two somewhere in england. And the outsiders and anonymous hatin on those south american "give us your money" "churches" is understandable, but I digress...
Mormons in the Southern U.S. do apparently give tithings as a means to sacrifice something in order to be closer to God...
However, since I consider money to be evil itself (or at least, the greed of people who desire it), I feel no obligation to give to God something that I feel is inherently evil.
I wish I didn't have to give it to the electric company either, but ah well... :lol:
My uncle's church focuses on tithes. They're so focused on it that they changed the schedule around so that the tithing and offering would occur after the sermon. His idea was that the congregation would be so into the spirit that they wouldn't mind giving. With the offerings, he has managed to buy an old Methodist church behind his church and he plans on turning that into an academy, which may or may not be profitable, I don't know.
However, it could be a lot worse. Prosperity theology and the crook Creflo Dollar, anyone?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_knKUT586nQ&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_knKUT586nQ&feature=related)
Quote from: hashish on February 21, 2010, 04:26:35 PM
Quote from: xXDNAXx on February 08, 2010, 12:04:52 PM
I agree with OP. Religion plays no part in my life whatsoever. Though being stuck in the south, you have to stare at Christians everyday. lol I just don't have much time for religion. And from what I've seen of the Churches, they just look like "Get Rich Quick Schemes" to me. Donate all your money to be right with God. :death: Ha.
I've never been to the south of america but I've heard from so many internet people that think ALL churches and organised "christian" establishments are like this ("Get Rich Quick Schemes"). It's the main reason why im so vocal about what I do and don't believe in.
There are like ZERO and I mean ZERO churches that have that ("Get Rich Quick Schemes") attitude in London and the south east of England that i've explored. I don't doubt that theres one or two somewhere in england. And the outsiders and anonymous hatin on those south american "give us your money" "churches" is understandable, but I digress...
I understand. Churches around here think that "god needs your money in exchange for a ticket into heaven." Not that other churches do the same. I'd like to see some of the churches in London, for the looks not for the religious aspect.
I'm a total agnostic. I don't openly hate on Christians and I can be friends with them just fine. I just like being liberated.
it's always been a tough one for me, i, for one, am considering myself "non religiouse" and not an athiest. throughout the years i've always tried to think of why religion started in the first place. cause i've seen a lot of bad things happen because of religion (violence and such)
at first i thought religion was a way to keep people civilized back in the day when you could walk up and kill your nieghbor and no one would do anything some 5000 years ago.
then i started thinking that maybe somthing happened to make our ancestors think that they saw was actually real and somthing did happen back then.
THEN, i'm now starting to see things like what the history channels new series "Ancient Aliens" were they believe that the reason we humans have no link from pre-human to human evolution. stating that aliens created us to mine gold and for other things (thus our intrest in gold in the ancient world)
but i don't know, it's complicated, what do you all think?
I do believe in a higher power but I dont believe he wants us going to a building full of people to pray once a week. I think he wants us to live full honest lives where instead of helping just our selves we help anybody who needs it even if they dont deserve it
My religious beliefs is private.
While I'm still interested in finding out the universal truth of the world, if there truly exists such a thing, I've very recently come to accept that I really don't give a shit about religion one way or the other.
This does not mean that I am anti-religious, however, just that I don't care enough to apply it to my life.
My parents have raised me as a Roman Catholic for my whole life, and though I am not a fan of the corruption in the churches, I am generally okay with the beliefs. However as of late I have been looking into thew wiccan religion, and I have to tell you guys I like what I see. One of the only commandments is this "If harm none do what though will", can't get much simpler than that